tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post1930866757405892276..comments2024-02-20T14:00:41.771-05:00Comments on A Canadian Lefty in Occupied Land: Change Requires a PathUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-27765744920047398512011-06-12T19:12:45.813-04:002011-06-12T19:12:45.813-04:00The electoral arena is one way to exert power, but...The electoral arena is one way to exert power, but it sounds like you are saying it is the only way, and I just don't think that's true. The streets and the workplace and the community can also be sites of exerting power that elites cannot ignore. There are plenty of example where the presence of people engaging in broad-based, autonomous social movement activities of diverse sorts have Scott Neighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17415106335668233754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-59455954886299755932011-06-12T19:12:23.544-04:002011-06-12T19:12:23.544-04:00Hi again!
I think you are seriously over-stating ...Hi again!<br /><br />I think you are seriously over-stating some aspects of your case. You can't honestly be claiming that social movements from the New Left era to today have had "practically no impact." And you seem to be claiming that a large portion of the blame for the state of the world, or at least a large portion of the blame for why various flavours of elite nastiness and Scott Neighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17415106335668233754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-42199913116831486982011-06-10T15:04:11.262-04:002011-06-10T15:04:11.262-04:00What I mean by "standing aloof" is, &quo...What I mean by "standing aloof" is, "Well, yeah, some parties are worse for us than others, so we'll vote for the least bad alternative. And some individual politicians can be okay and we'll work with them from time to time. Whatever."<br /><br />Just the other day I was reading about some column in the BBC or the CBC [and that's why I thought about responding herethwaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15399550285738440669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-33197624232531267802011-06-03T19:39:57.129-04:002011-06-03T19:39:57.129-04:00(And as a final aside...I think sometimes when we&...(And as a final aside...I think sometimes when we're having these discussions you have the impression that I'm far more puritanical about relating to parties and to the state than I actually am. I definitely think we're better off rooted in movements, and I think we're fools if we don't insist on being highly skeptical of the state, but I'm no purist. Reform struggles are Scott Neighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17415106335668233754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-4132252286590138592011-06-03T19:32:19.249-04:002011-06-03T19:32:19.249-04:00Even just looking at the rather desolate condition...Even just looking at the rather desolate conditions in Canada at the moment, I can still see the utility of being rooted in movements and wary of parties but still engaging with the system as is tactically appropriate. I'm involved in a group that is most immediately about seeking justice for a wrongfully convicted Native man named John Moore. There has been some progress on his case in the Scott Neighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17415106335668233754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-83032141822097161542011-06-03T19:31:03.220-04:002011-06-03T19:31:03.220-04:00Social movements, on the other hand, face differen...Social movements, on the other hand, face different constraints. They have less immediate legitimacy for many folks, often less mainstream media access than a mainstream political party, generally far fewer resources. But their scope for action is not limited by the organizational form of the party, by a predetermined way in which they must relate to the state, or a number of other factors that Scott Neighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17415106335668233754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-49676480866014140982011-06-03T19:29:35.582-04:002011-06-03T19:29:35.582-04:00Hi again thwap.
No worries about the harshness......Hi again thwap.<br /><br />No worries about the harshness...I've driven for five hours since typing last, so I'm feeling a little rough around the edges myself.<br /><br />So first to explain what I mean by "change the shape of possibility."<br /><br />I see what can be accomplished via electoral politics as being a fairly constrained range of things -- a fairly constrained set Scott Neighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17415106335668233754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-10676228632701203702011-06-03T14:42:49.474-04:002011-06-03T14:42:49.474-04:00Scott,
"what we most urgently need is moveme...Scott,<br /><br />"<i>what we most urgently need is movements with energy to change the shape of possibility (for parties as well as people) in ways that no organization with the form of a political party ever will.</i>"<br /><br />Just what the heck does "change the shape of possibility" mean?<br /><br />It's vaguely reminiscent of "the audacity of hope."<br /><thwaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15399550285738440669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-79099860820414205622011-06-03T09:02:08.664-04:002011-06-03T09:02:08.664-04:001. Not everything is going to be able to engage ev...1. Not everything is going to be able to engage everybody. However, in my experience, both participating and watching grassroots anti-poverty work of various flavours in Ontario in the last fifteen years, grassroots anti-poverty work that is getting things done <i>will</i> attract people living in poverty. Not everyone living in poverty, of course, but not insignificant numbers, either.<br /><br Scott Neighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17415106335668233754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-26593498897175698382011-06-03T07:58:08.202-04:002011-06-03T07:58:08.202-04:00Well, I finished it. That didn't take long.
C...Well, I finished it. That didn't take long.<br /><br />Couple of things:<br /><br />1. How do you get your ordinary, CTV-watching neighbours and relatives to participate in anti-poverty direct action?<br /><br />2. How can zines and pamphlets be anything but directed at our insular, already converted communities? (Should we put 'em in our neighbours' mail-boxes? That actually sounds thwaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15399550285738440669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-55957000042426937832011-06-02T20:15:46.245-04:002011-06-02T20:15:46.245-04:00Hi thwap...good point. I made a tactical choice gi...Hi thwap...good point. I made a tactical choice given the length of the piece, the probably target audience, and the central point that I was trying to get across, but it may not have been the right choice. That is, it was already pretty long; the target audience was people who already think movements are important; and the point was to convince that group that it isn't enough for us to know Scott Neighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17415106335668233754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-12020610613787954052011-06-02T13:28:52.880-04:002011-06-02T13:28:52.880-04:00Scott,
I have to stop reading and play with the l...Scott,<br /><br />I have to stop reading and play with the little boy now, but I need to comment:<br /><br />I've read up to the end of the part about social movements, and I hate to say it, but there's nothing in there that says anything concrete about what they did and how they did it.<br /><br />Some historical examples and a description of how they achieved whatever it was they thwaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15399550285738440669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-78310489621760135452011-01-01T18:40:45.279-05:002011-01-01T18:40:45.279-05:00Thanks, ansel!Thanks, ansel!Scott Neighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17415106335668233754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-80138221634626091622011-01-01T16:56:26.871-05:002011-01-01T16:56:26.871-05:00Excellent post laying out the things a lot of us h...Excellent post laying out the things a lot of us have tied up in our heads. Thanks! I'm sure I'll be looking back at this post to remind myself of what I need to be doing...anselhttp://mediahacker.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-55005292017266813082010-12-31T11:25:54.835-05:002010-12-31T11:25:54.835-05:00Thanks Jackie!
And thanks to you too, Randy. I...Thanks Jackie!<br /><br />And thanks to you too, Randy. I'm not sure that's the entire reason they feel inadequate, but it is certainly a part of it. I've never been well suited by temperment to the necessary activist practice of starting something open-ended and seeing what happens, though I know it's often the best way to proceed. But I think it has to do with scale as well...Scott Neighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17415106335668233754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-89277067392886728672010-12-31T09:52:04.646-05:002010-12-31T09:52:04.646-05:00Thanks for putting this out there Scott! I couldn&...Thanks for putting this out there Scott! I couldn't agree more with the ideas you suggest, and think that the sense that they are "inadequate" is merely due to the fact that there are no guarantees<br /> - I like the way Howard Zinn described that aspect of it - something like "If you try, great things may happen, but if you don't try, I know, great things won't happen.Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07094473740572791152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-26193557752166341592010-12-31T09:44:25.759-05:002010-12-31T09:44:25.759-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Toronto Action for Social Changehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09740851364765520609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7042961.post-57151117098637041252010-12-30T18:37:19.154-05:002010-12-30T18:37:19.154-05:00wonderful analysis Scott. Really insightful. Thank...wonderful analysis Scott. Really insightful. Thanks for posting this. Jackie.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com